The Bourne Ultimatum Starring Matt Damon And Julia Stiles
Posted August 6, 2007 at 9:39 AM
This weekend, I went to see the Bourne Ultimatum... twice. This movie was a lot of fun. I haven't seen the first two in a quite a while, so my memory is a bit fuzzy, but I would have to say that the first half of this movie represents the best Jason Bourne action to date. It really sucks you right in from the very beginning and holds your attention the entire way through. Even on the second go-round, I was surprised how much I actually enjoyed the movie despite knowing everything that was going to happen.
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The second half of the movie, while a bit less engaging, concentrates more on the story line, Bourne's internal battle, and the conflict that exists within the CIA itself. The first time I saw the movie, I felt that the second half was a bit of let down, especially after having been so jazzed up by the first half. However, during my second screening, I actually found the second have to be quite good - better than I had remembered, even.
**** Potential Spoiler Alert ****
One thing that I wasn't expecting was for Nicky Parsons' character (played by Julia Stiles) to show up again. And, not only was I not expecting her presence, I certainly would not have expected her to have such a big role in the movie. I am not sure that she is even in the coming attractions at all? As an actress, she has really started to disappoint me. I first fell in love with her in the movie 10 Things I Hate About You (a modern remake of The Taming of the Shrew), in which she played a bubbly yet defiant teen who doesn't care what any one else thinks or says about her. In that movie, she is purely delicious with her quirky smile, expressive eyes, hottie physique, and a real youthful energy. With every passing movie, however, the magic seems to wear off more and more, and now, in The Bourne Ultimatum, the acting that I once found so fun and lively seems now, so stiff and flat. I felt her whole performance was just, well, unhappy, like she didn't want to be there or really get into the role.
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Furthermore, I think that the movie makers did a poor job of exploring Bourne's and Parsons' relationship, both past and present. There seemed to be this uncomfortable, underlying connection between the two, but nothing was ever spelled out. At one point, they are both in a coffee shop and Bourne asks her why she is helping him, to which she says something like "It was very hard for me, with you". What does that mean? Does that mean she had a crush on him? Does that mean they were together before he lost his memories? Was she jealous of the previous female lead? After a long, awkward pause, she then says, "You really don't remember?" Was she just trying to move the conversation along or was she referring to something they had together once?
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It was all very unclear. Had Stiles' acting been a bit more emotional, I might have been able to pick up more of the story without it being spelled out, but they just had no chemistry together. Later on in the movie, Nicky dies her hair black to help blend in. As it was happening, I thought they were gonna tie this back into the time when former love interest, Marie Kreutz (played by Franka Potente), did the same thing; this at least would have triggered some sort of emotion in Bourne, but alas, nothing came of it.
The whole Jason Bourne-Nicky Parsons sub-plot as an aside, this movie is a rockin' good time. Matt Damon is just fun to watch and his level of badassery is kicked up for this film. I'm giving it two thumbs up. Go see it in the theater on the big screen.
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Reader Comments
I felt the same way initially about the whole Julia Stiles thing. But when I think about the series, the formula has been kick ass action + a little more insight into who Jason Bourne is.
He's not James Bond trying to stop some crime from occurring. He's just a super spy trying to figure out who he is and what was done to him. So while the Nicky Parsons / Jason Bourne relationship was not satisfying, it does set up another area to explore if they decide to make more sequels.
I think part of the reason people enjoy the character is that he's a good guy who knows exactly the same about himself as the audience does. That keeps him interesting. Once we know everything about bourne, then where do you go from there storywise?
So they keep adding layers, answering some questions, while raising others. I've enjoyed the first 3 and will be there if they make a part 4.
Posted by Dorioo on Aug 6, 2007 at 12:02 PM
I know this is a bit of a cliché, but READ THE BOOKS. Or listen to them on Ipod, assuming you can get one that isn't so heavily edited for time that you miss a lot. That's what I ended up with when I got the Wheel of Time books on tape. (Yes- TAPE!!)
The book "The Bourne Identity" was so much better than the movie, I can't even keep a straight face claiming that the movie was based on the book. Haven't seen the other two, and after the first, I've got no real desire to.
Which is too bad- I like Matt Damon. I even liked the moved "Bourne Identity". It was different enough from the book, and was missing so much from the book, that it really was like they were two different stories.
Posted by Matt Osbun on Aug 6, 2007 at 12:36 PM
@Dorioo,
I think you make a great point - that Bourne knows just as much about himself as we do. I never thought about that, but that is certainly dead on the money. And, I think it makes for a much more engaging story as you really feel like you are part of the discovery process.
And, certainly, I wouldn't mind them making another sequel exploring the Julia Stiles aspect, as I am big fan of hers, she just needs to up her game a bit.
@Matt,
It's funny you say that because just 20 minutes ago, I was having a conversation with my boss and he was saying that books are so different from the movies and that if you read the books, seeing the movies is not a problem cause you don't really feel like the story gets ruined.
I will see if I can find them on the iPod. There's more than three books right? Hopefully that will mean more sequels; I know you are not crazy about the movies, but I would certainly go see the next one. So far, 1 and 3 are the best. Not sure I even remember how 2 went.
Posted by Ben Nadel on Aug 6, 2007 at 1:35 PM
@Ben
If you don't remember the Bourne Supremacy movie, then I'd definitely recommend the book. It's a fascinating look at China and some of its internal problems, as well as it's relationship to the U.S.
Now that I think about it, if Julia Stiles is playing the character I think she is, it's surprising that the movie left their relationship ambiguous. The books most certainly did not. In fact, the whole tone of The Bourne Supremacy would have been far different without her and their relationship.
I could also be wrong. I real the books many years ago, and I'm bad with names as a rule.
Posted by Matt Osbun on Aug 6, 2007 at 2:14 PM
@Matt,
I definitely want to go back and at least watch movies 1 and 2, just to freshen up the ideas. But certainly, I think their relationship (Damon / Stiles) was quite ambiguous in both the second and third movie. I certainly didn't pick up on anything in movie 2... but then again, I'm just a caveman that was frozen in ice and then thawed out by your scientists.
Posted by Ben Nadel on Aug 6, 2007 at 2:32 PM
I also saw the movie this past weekend. I didn't have high expectation so it was all right.
On a side not, I have to say that I cannot take Matt Deamon seriously anymore after the "Team America - World Police" movie. If you guys haven't seen that one, it's pretty damn good.
Posted by Boyan on Aug 6, 2007 at 4:49 PM
AMERICA! F***-yeah! Terrorists can suck on my B***s
That movie's a classic.
Posted by Ben Nadel on Aug 6, 2007 at 5:30 PM
I just finished watching the movie and I loved it, the only thing that got me was the relationship between Julia Stiles and Matt Damon. So, I looked it up and I found an article oh Julia interviewed bout this movie... hope this helps a little to you all.
http://www.ugo.com/ugo/html/article/?id=17611§ionId=2
Posted by Pondered Relationship on Aug 13, 2007 at 1:44 AM
Interesting article. For others, here is the part that sort of discusses the previous relationship:
What Nicky has witnessed in the second one, actually throughout the whole series, has made her question how corrupt this operation has become. I think she realized in the second one that she was expendable and that she was just sort of a pawn and it made her want to get out. What's interesting for me about the relationship between Nicky and Jason is that she was around before he became Jason Bourne. She saw what the training did to him, and she sympathizes with this agony that he has over what he's done in his past. So, yeah, she gets emotionally involved, but she almost can't help it, like Jason Bourne can't help it and Pamela Landy can't help it.
Posted by Ben Nadel on Aug 13, 2007 at 7:27 AM
OK, everyone missed some clues about Nicky and Jason. I just saw the film again. (I watched the first two about ten times each). When Jason confronts the mad scientist/ behaviorist on the tenth floor on E 71st Sreet he has more flashbacks with Neil and mad scentist in the hall and way down the hall is Nicky. It flashes so fast but they show it a second time. i missed it completely the first time I saw the movie. It was brilliant, and answered part of that sub plot.
And, I noticed more the second viewing, how much chemistry was really going on between Jason and Nicky. It was not happy and no one smiled once. It was brilliant acting by both. It did not play any off the real plot and thrust of all this world wide action. I think that if they end up somewhere else, they were going to sizzle.
Posted by Doug on Aug 13, 2007 at 8:08 PM
@Doug,
Yeah, I totally don't remember seeing her in the flashbacks and I saw the movie twice. Thanks for pointing that out. I have not read the books at all, but I guess this is where it is going.
Posted by Ben Nadel on Aug 14, 2007 at 5:17 PM
hey doug,
i watched the movie again after reading yur comment and i completely missed that part...and now i really want to know what had happened between them
Posted by chelsy on Aug 16, 2007 at 6:06 PM
Which part of the movie was that!? pretty much at the end of the film. what mad scientist you mean? albert hirsch?
i wanna see a fourth part!
Posted by NIcklbrat on Aug 19, 2007 at 10:25 AM
Nicklbrat,
Yeah, that was very near the end, the last two flashbacks. Nicky was way down the hall, almost a different plane, that's why you almost don't see her, because the focus of the scene is in the foreground, with Neil and the mastermind behaviorist that changes him into Jason. They flash that twice. Nicky is there at the beginning. How, why she got out into the field was as his handler and other blackstone operatives, I guess. And that is a story of a whole different color if that is even how it worked. But she was there with Jason at the very beginning.
Posted by Doug on Aug 19, 2007 at 5:16 PM
i like this movie very much. Nicky/Jason pairing for me was better than Marie/Jason. As for Julia's acting, i thought it was very in-character, she did not give anything away which i think how it is really supposed to be. she has this flat affect that is just so consistent with the way she stares at him whenever she sees him; that is how she looks at him everytime from bourne 1-3. I like the way she keeps her emotions in check, as if wanting to say something but never really does. For me she acts that way because she is an intelligent woman and knows that at that moment in time anything emotional she says to him would be inappropriate.
Posted by morbidfeather on Aug 28, 2007 at 7:40 AM
thank you all! I got so much from your discusion~
I just saw this movie(3) 15 mins ago, with the most interest of the relationship between N and B. yet, the book provided more details, but I read the news that they changed the playbook much.
I think that Julia is great. Maybe it's just in the vision of a Chinese, her babyface looks cute ,however her action looks so calm meeting Damon everytime (1,2) without fearing death (kill by D), but in the Ultimatum, she looks so afeard when the killer searching her.... so different
and, I don't think she want to really get out the orgnization, (1,2), why in 3 ?! I would like to believe that it's something about emotional effect.... although the movie not clearly spell out the line of relationshop between them, the conversation in caffee clearly showed something PAST at least ,and plussing the haircutting one, she looked like the deceased girl, or the deceased gf just looked like her? For there is a PAST, I would like to believe the latter....
so I think julia's action is successful, the "unclear" show reflected her pain .She's smart, brave, a little jealous.
personality? no...everyone in the movie is nonhuman...
only women are same...in the world and in movie...
(sorry for my poor English again ,hoping to discuss with you,my pleasure:)
Posted by fangye on Sep 1, 2007 at 3:27 PM
HAS ANYONE READ THE BOOK?? The movie had NONE of the book in it. The only similarity was the title. After wading through all 662 page of the book I was tremendously disappointed in the movie, having looked forward to seeing the demise of Bourne's long time nemesis, Carlos, The Jackal. No more money of mine will be wasted on further "Jason Bourne" rip-offs, be they books OR movies.
Posted by Jim on Sep 10, 2007 at 7:51 PM
I think two things were forgotten about the Nicky Parsons character during the filming. The poster claims Julia Stiles acting inadvertently affected the role.
What seems to escape the poster is that Julia and the character are two different things. You can't compare the character in "10 Things I Hate about You" with any of the Bourne films. It's just not feasible. Julia's character in the first film is a high school teenager living life and really basically a teenager. In Bourne, she's living on life and death, with her life being threatened continously, not to mention she's a CIA agent and she's a psychologist.
Realistically, I can't see Julia's character, to be fun and bubbly. It's just not fitting in the theme. The characters barely smirk to even crack a smile and I get the impression the poster wanted Julia or her character to be bouncing off the walls in glee to be shot at.
The only qualm I really have is the fact they didn't pursue the relationship between Nikki and Bourne...because they threw it out there and left everything open ended. Other than that it was realistic for the story and I really liked the Parson's character.
Posted by vaberella on Dec 3, 2007 at 9:27 AM
In Response to Doug for August 13, 2007:
You're incorrect that wasn't Nikki. For several reasons. If you go back to the coffee shop scene, you'll see that Nikki new Daniels but not the other guy. If that woman who flashed before him was Nikki in that scene, she would be fully aware of who the second guy in the pic was or she would have told Bourne who he was, because she'd have nothing to lose.
The second reason it can't be her, is if you go back to Bourne Identity. Her hair in Bourne identity was long and blonde. Her natural hair colour is not the color you see in Supremacy/Ultimatum....that is brown with blonde highlights. That means it was another woman who was in that office at 415 E 71st. Since her hair in Ultimatum is present tense and what happened to Bourne with that woman flashing before him was several years before and Identity showed a different Nikki with different hair.
Not to mention, if you check back to Supremacy or even Ultimatum You can tell that Parsons has a limited knowledge of the training. Ultimatum really solidifies it when the top secret files of the training method that Daniels had or the other top secret forms were top secret. She would have some working knowledge since she was the psychologist and handler, I believe, but overall she wouldn't know the inner workings and the battle between Bourne and Desh also proved she was totally out of the loop in many respects.
Taking the above into consideration if we go by what Nikki said, whatever they had was something else and she didn't know about the testing done at E 71st.
Posted by vaberella on Dec 3, 2007 at 9:37 AM
It is possible that Nicky was there at the beginning of Jason Bourne's training. She may have not known Hirsh but that does not dismiss the possibility that she may have been used as a tool for Jason's training.
Nicky was working as a handler with Treadstone. After the Treadstone operation was trashed, she gets transferred to be assistant to Daniels, the person who just so happens to be the assistant founder of the Treadstone project? Sounds a little suspicious to me.
Also, Nicky knows exactly what Daniels is up to when he decides to flee. Daniels must have trusted her with that information. But it would be hard to believe that Daniels could have trusted Nicky after only being transferred for a few months. I think Landy mentions 6 months? last known location of Jason in Russia, about the same time Nicky's transfer would be.
Seems to me it is highly likely that Nicky was there at the beginning used as a tool for psychological training or as training as a handler.
If you are going to brainwash someone into being Jason Bourne, then you got to have a woman in there somewhere to exploit all his emotions and thoughts. Afterall, Marie was able to influence Jason.
Nicky: Training tool and/or Bourne's trained handler?
Hopefully IF there is a next Bourne movie this can be confirmed.
Posted by b on Dec 3, 2007 at 4:29 PM
Ok, and your logic and recall is brilliant. That all makes sennse enough for another view. I need more details. I am going to have to look at the first two again and Ultimatum comes out for public sale on Dec, 11. I would like to examine by slow and frame modes. Certainly there is enough mystery to warrant a fourth movie if they think the public will buy it.
Doug
Posted by Doug on Dec 4, 2007 at 8:42 PM
Well, first and foremost, I am a humongous fangirl of the Jason Bourne and Nicky Parsons relationship; maybe that might influence my opinion of the movie.
However, in my opinion, Ultimatum was obvious. Nicky and Jason used to have a relationship. Also, I thought that the movie conveyed the idea that another romantic relationship was a possibility.
I wish Julia Stiles could have been a bit more feminine, though; Jason is so handsome - I would have been very swooning and flirtatious! ^^
Anyways, there's my two cents.
Olivia
Posted by Olivia on Dec 23, 2007 at 2:40 AM
Wow I just finished watching Ultimatum. This was an awesome trilogy. I too hope there's a 4th movie, hopefully focusing on developing the Nikki and Jason relationship. But in the end, Jason or David said, he remembers everything, incl. stuff from before his training right? But it didn't look like he remembered anything about Nikki. And what's up with the last asset not shooting. I mean, he's not like Jason who lost his memory and started doubting things, he shouldn't have done that--anyway, if there is a 4th movie, I'm sure that last asset will be on it.
Posted by suzette on Dec 30, 2007 at 3:13 AM
@suzette,
I have no problem with the last asset not shooting. Bourne didn't shoot him when he had the chance to at the end of the car chase. They are trained killers, but I guess at some level, all the assets are still human and I don't think they need to lose their memory for that level to be struck??
Posted by Ben Nadel on Dec 30, 2007 at 12:09 PM
Oh yeah you're right. This whole thing started with Bourne not shooting Wombosi afterall. And now I'm thinking there's nothing more between Nikki and Jason, cuz she would've at least told him he was David Webb towards the end. I think when she said I had a hard time because of you or something, I really think that's all she meant. She was a psychologist so maybe his memory lost just changed her outlook on things and she was just letting him know. *sigh* no 4th movie I guess...
Posted by suzette on Jan 2, 2008 at 6:54 PM
In response to b for post on Dec 3, 2007.
I have to disagree with you in regards to Nikki. I won't deny that I don't see Nikki as innocent in everything and she has knowledge and understanding of a lot of things going on, more so in Ultimatum considering what she's been through in Identity and Supremacy. I, however find it unlikely that she knew about Bourne's training. She definitely knows of the affects and we know her role as a handler and, of course her possible relationship with Bourne, but nothing really beyond that.
I don't find it unrealistic or suspicious that she was transferred to Daniels in Ultimatum. Actually, that was an extremely likely scenario. We know everyone with Treadstone except for Nikki was killed off, Conklin getting killed off by one of his own. Then we have Abbot who picked up Nikki in Supremacy and I'm sure gave her a small debriefing on what to say. But even then her knowledge was limited. If she was aware of even more secret dealings she would have broken down when facing impending death. She knew what Bourne was capable of and the fact that he managed to get them out of signal range so that they couldn't be found and be overheard. She could have easily told him about Berlin, if she knew about it. If she knew about Berlin then she would have more knowledge than your basic handler. Bourne would have killed her if he wasn't in his episodes and the level of fear coming out of her in that moment gives us how much knowledge she really had.
Going back to Daniels her transfer makes sense. After Supremacy and Identity she was the one directly connected to Bourne than anyone else, that's first off and this keeps in mind the fact she was his handler and was aware of his nightmares and health. We will omit the fact that there probably was a personal relationship between the two. With all the information given there, why wouldn't Daniels request her transfer? Daniels has serious clout in the CIA since he was directly involved in the creation and success of Blackbriar, not to mention the situation with Bourne. He would have definitely wanted to keep Nikki close to him. Personally I think he kept her close because he was actually protecting her. We saw what happened to Conklin and definitely what would have happened to Abbott, if he didn't' take himself out and of course what happened to Daniels. Nikki would have been taken out without an issue, and there was nothing Landy would be able to do about it. Further more he was already releasing information to the public, I really feel that Daniels was trying to make amends some how and Nikki was one of the reasons.
I agree that her transfer wasn't coincidental, but I don't think it's as sinister or suspicious as you made it out to be. Lastly, I don't see how Nikki was able to influence Bourne at all emotionally. The reason Marie was able to break into Bourne was because the Bourne, Marie was with was not the same Bourne he was before Wombosi. These are two different men. The Bourne Marie had was a man who was lost and didn't know who he was, but knew people were trying to kill him. Shoot, Marie's Bourne even smiled a few times. Do you really think Bourne the killer before Wombosi was much of a smiled?
I definitely hope there is a part four.
Posted by vaberella on Jan 3, 2008 at 3:28 AM
In response to SUZETTE for post on Dec 30, 2007 and Jan 2, 2008.
The assets are not completely inhumane. They feel pain, endure nightmares and mood changes, and can think. Remember a lot of these assets have proper jobs within the area they work. The Professor is a perfect example. The Professor actually shows that these guys are doing a job even if they have been brainwashed. Bourne was the first, and there were many after him. They are not unthinking beings, they all have some idea of sense and for that matter they are aware there's something more. If what was done to Bourne was done to others, and we're speaking of the brainwashing, they must know several years of their life was completely missing and if not missing they were different people then. This is important to see. The Professor, who was completely unlike Bourne, said the most important lines in the series "look at what they make you give" which Bourne reiterates to that last asset. He knows that they are trained to kill, but there's more beyond just the killing. Some of them probably are totally unhappy and that asset was one of the ones completely unhappy with his situation. Actually that comes into play in the cut scenes on the DVD I believe.
As for the Bourne/Nikki relationship, it was basically confirmed. If you get the Steelbook or the Tin container (Tin for Australian/European readers) it gives a 10 minute clip entitled The Evolution of Nicky (I just prefer Nikki). In it everyone confirms there was something going on, and Matt Damon says and I quote, "she's the leading lady". Sure it could have just been her affected by his case, but that's unlikely. Again the Director, Producer said there was something between them. At the coffee shop she didn't tell him his memories for many reasons. You don't tell force memories and stories on people who can't remember. They're mind will recreate it and probably alter it based on what you told them. All individuals have different memory readings. That's why when a crime is committed or an accident and there are witnesses the cops don't want anyone talking to anyone and each witness must be interrogated differently so there are no discrepancies. Memories are snapshot moments in time and she can't just start giving out information without it causing some problems later. If she's a psychologist as believed to be she would know that and take that into consideration. Plus it would make it easier for her and him to let go if there was something more and he didn't remember.
As for David Webb, Bourne already knew he was David Webb. This was a cut scene on the Supremacy DVD when Landy came to see him and Nikki was there. If we're omitting the cut scene and saying that it never happened in Supremacy and going by just the film, then Nikki wouldn't know he's David Webb. To her all she knows is Jason Bourne, and everything else is an alias. Nikki again knew nothing, as far as we know, about Blackbriar or the hits and deaths he committed for Conklin we find out about in Supremacy, Nikki then doesn't know Webb to tell him he was Webb. I think if she did know about Blackbriar she would have told Bourne because there was a bloody hit out to kill her, she knew it, he knew, and everyone knows it---if she knew what went on and he was Webb she had nothing to gain or lose by not telling him since she saved his life and he in effect saved hers.
Posted by vaberella on Jan 3, 2008 at 3:49 AM
Wow, really??? So they were... OMG! Thank you for that! I watched Identity, Supremacy, and Ultimatum in one sitting. My friend lent me the first 2 on DVD but haven't seen any special features or commentaries. And the 3rd one she just dled, so I'm just going by the movies, no externals. But it looks like it's worth the buy eh? I'll be getting that Steelbook... Jason Bourne Collection or I wanna get it, but now you tell me there's a good chance there'll be a 4th, so now I'm wondering if I should just wait and get all 4 in a set.
All the stuff up there is new to me and me and my friend are a huge fan of this trilogy, so I'll be passing this on. Thanks again!
Posted by suzette on Jan 4, 2008 at 1:32 AM
To SUZETTE on January 4, 2008.
Yeah, it's no problem. The 10 minute detailed view on Nikki Parsons can only be found on the Bourne Ultimatum Steel Book. The box sets and the regular dvd's or even the regular Bourne Ultimatum dvd doesn't have the 10 minute information which tells you the direction they were going in was for Nikki/Bourne pairing.
Actually, let me be more clear, it tells that they were tapping on a past that most likely shared and hence Nikki's comment in that scene. Most people will think what they want if they don't have the Steelbook version since it's a limited special edition. You can get it on amazon but you'd be getting it from outside sellers not Amazon itself.
There is a strong chance for a 4th film. I believe Matt Damon said in a later interview closer to dvd release date that he would do another film but the script would have to be damn good and everyone who was on board for the last 3 would have be on board for this one. He said he won't do it with anyone else but that crew and the same writer.
So if those don't come together no film. But since all 3 films were so good, most people would love another. I don't think people would like it if there was someone else playing Matt Damon's role. I personally think he should do 5 films in total for Bourne aligned with the book total (not the following the novel storyline of course). Then leave it at that. It just seems fitting with 5 and a final conclusion at the end.
HTH.
Posted by vaberella on Jan 6, 2008 at 6:51 AM
Here's the article I was speaking about...
http://www.slashfilm.com/2007/10/19/matt-damon-to-be-bourne-again/
Posted by vaberella on Jan 6, 2008 at 7:23 AM
NIkki and Jason (David): My intuition is sister/brother. perhaps fraternal twins. It's in his blood not to seriously hurt her, but he never gets 'romantic' with her.
Posted by Azwaverider on Feb 21, 2008 at 5:14 PM
From what I can recall of the Bourne character in all three movies, he avoids seriously hurting anyone who does not confront him directly and attempts to minimize casualties in his actions. In the beginning of Ultimatum, he does not hurt the second Russian officer at all, even to knock him out so he couldn't get to a phone. Then in the scene where he tosses the can of hairspary in to the fire to create a distraction, he pulls the street merchant out of harms way where he could've just knocked him unconscious with one punch. I think there are probably examples of this behavior in the first movies, but I don't recall any specific scenes at the moment.
I get the feeling that this maybe a fundamental part of Jason/David's psyche, and also helps the viewers relate to the character, as the final flashbacks reveal that he was and still is unwilling to hurt someone without immediate cause or knowing more about why.
KuoH
Posted by KuoH on Mar 16, 2008 at 10:15 PM
